What the heck is up with the numbering on the Kabanas Hellas books?

[define999]

Ok guys... so you know a few hardcore Americans search for greek books... well the accepted logic we have had is that the Kabanas Hellas books had mismatched covers and interiors in comparison with the American books. No biggie right.... but a eagle eyed peer of mine found this!

 

 

Now he says that someone over here said that collectors would sometimes match up proper story with cover... but that still doesn't make sense because the both books would have 17 as an issue number! 

 

The 18 looks like its pre-printed? I check the database here and this is what I found?

 

I included both scans under the screen shot I took!

 

According to the database here the 17 is the one we have come to know as the punisher cover and the 18 is something else with a 17 as a issue number? What could be going on? 

 

Were there second printings done at Kabanas Hellas with properly matched covers and interiors? 

 

Did enterprising collectors re-print covers to match later without Kabanas knowledge? A sort of independent printing? 

 

You guys have had to known about these discrepancies right? Could ya fill a American in? This is fascinating? 

 

And why did Kabanas do this mismatched cover thing anyway? Im curious about that too......

 

Ευχαριστώ τους φίλους μου!

 

Matthew

[define999]

I just realized after re-looking at mine its numbered 18! I think this is the numbering many Americans have usually found but what could be going on? Is their someone printing these things at a later date? Could certain issues be un-official counterfeits? Crazy! 

[germanicus]

nice find!

 

I quick-read the relevant topic and I don't see any discussion about such a cover in that series.

 

I found an almost similar case where one issue had the number 188 on front but on the inside (a) it was printed upside-down (b) it said number 185.

 

On the other hand there have been cases where somebody did not have the original cover and substituted it with stg completely different (monty python style ). Check this one for example. By touching the "problematic" cover does it feel as if it is made from different material than the other covers of that era? That could be an indication of a "forgery". 

 

I don't know if somebody else has ever encountered a similar phenomenon on a Kabanas title. I do not personally collect them, so I wouldn't know Nevertheless, from what I've read, Kabanas was quite capable of doing such errors with no outside help whatsoever

 

[germanicus]

as a matter of fact that Master of Kung Fu presentation has plenty of similar surprises

 

On the first post, the one before the last photo (with the legend "και το μαιμού #05." ('the fake #05')) has an almost hand-made cover Check the lettering

 

Further on issues 33 & 34 have the same number on the cover However, from what the guys say on that topic, it appears that when you look inside those issues, it is quite clear that one of them is #34. It appears that Kabanas did the same mistake on all those #34 issues

 

yeap. it is always fun trying to figure out what exactly was transpiring in greek comics before the 90's

 

 

 

edit

Melandros pointed out some funny instances with the Avengers issues. It appears that issue 11 has been published with 2 covers, noone has ever seen issues numbered 10 or 12 and further on, there is an issue numbered 29, but noone has ever seen issues 16 to 28

[leonidio]

OK, there seems to be a problem here, indeed. 

I also collect this title and I can testify to the following:

My copies have a correct numbering (i.e. 17, 18, 19 - there is a reason that I have included 19 as well). Issue 17 is the one with the Dr. Octopus cover, issue 18 the famous Punisher cover. However, and unlike your copies, Matthew, in my issue 17 there is a Green Goblin Sory, in issue 18 I have the Mysterio story and in issue 19 there is the Punisher story. Moreover, the publication dates of my issue 18 do not match with the ones written in 17 and 19.

 

Now, as far as your questions are concenrned: 

Were there second printings done at Kabanas Hellas with properly matched covers and interiors? 

 

Nobody knows with certainty, but personally I seriously doubt if there were any second printings at all.

 

Did enterprising collectors re-print covers to match later without Kabanas knowledge? A sort of independent printing? 

 

Highly unlikely given the poor means that they had at their disposal during the 70s. Again, however, nobody knows for sure.

 

You guys have had to known about these discrepancies right? Could ya fill a American in? This is fascinating? 

There are a lot of discrepancies about Kabanas' covers. Personally, I was not aware of that one. We need more information from other collectors.

 

And why did Kabanas do this mismatched cover thing anyway? Im curious about that too......

 

Most probably, because there were not paying much attention to their material. The discrepancies continued throughout the entire 80's.

 

 

I really hope that I have been a little helpful, but we really need to see what other members of the forum who collect the series have to say about this. I am certain that more discrepancies will be discovered.

[Melandros]

my copies..

 

[Melandros]

 

My copies have a correct numbering (i.e. 17, 18, 19 - there is a reason that I have included 19 as well). Issue 17 is the one with the Dr. Octopus cover, issue 18 the famous Punisher cover. However, and unlike your copies, Matthew, in my issue 17 there is a Green Goblin Sory, in issue 18 I have the Mysterio story and in issue 19 there is the Punisher story.

 

.. same here! 

 

#17 Green Goblin Story (  Dr. Octopus cover  )

 

# 18 "Mysterio" story    (     Punisher cover      )

Επεξεργασία Ιανουαρίου 8, 2014 από Melandros

[crc]

Whoops !!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Επεξεργασία Ιανουαρίου 13, 2014 από crc

[Melandros]

Κάτσε.. Κώστα αυτό το τεύχος είαι το δικό σου?? και είναι γραμμένα τα ίδια πράγματα μέσα όπυς του παλικαριού (129 αριστερά και 19 στο κέντρο)???

[φλοκ]

Βρε Κωστή από σενα το αγόρασε ο Αμερικάνος ????? !!!!!! :lol:

[MORIBUS]

If you want an opinion from a guy that was there and bought these issues when they first came out: this is a forgery from some wise guy -Greek most probably- who spotted the high prices that some people insist to sell them for and decided to make his own copies. I used to have at least 8 times these particular issues -with the 18nth being the one with the Punisher- that I purchased at entirely different times and places and I never came across this inconsistency.

But maybe I got very lucky and that bastard Kabanas is now laughing at us from his grave!!    

Επεξεργασία Ιανουαρίου 8, 2014 από MORIBUS

[crc]

Mαϊμού τεύχος από εμένα...τσ ...τσ....τσ κακό ! μην βλέπετε παντού φάντασματα   (δεν το λέω για όσους έγραψαν στο thread... )

 

Well i send the issue to a fellow American collector. Not the one who started the thread but a friend of his.

 

The issue was a GIFT free of any charge including even the post expenses. That has to be said since it is easy to make ...bad thoughts about it especialy these days.

 

The issue is of course a counterfeit. I have posted info for such issues again.

This one had the inside pages from #19 with the punisher story. The front cover is the one with punisher but with the number #17 retrofitted from the "forger". Propably with a stencil.

The back cover which isn't shown in any picture is...blank. 

 It is not of course the original back cover of the #18. Either a printing error (my guess) or some kind of glued paper (i haven't seen traces of that but it is possible).

The paper is the same quality (weight and texture) as the original used from Kabanas for covers.

 

For the skeptics i attach a excerpt from my mail stating the above to the receipient of the issue.

 

For the old war horses around here i have a good guess about who the forger was. I will be glad if someone is willing to compare notes on that.

Επεξεργασία Ιανουαρίου 8, 2014 από crc

[Melandros]

(για τον Κώστα.. μην νομίζεις πως έγραψα κάτι για να σου την πω και τέτοια... απλά μου φάνηκε περίεργο όλο το τεύχος από την αρχή και όταν είδα να το ανεβάζεις νόμιζα πως έχετε και οι δύο ταυτόχρονα το ιδιο τεύχος και κόλλησα.. αυτό για τυχόν παρεξηγήσεις.. )

[φλοκ]

Για τον Κωστα κι εγώ : Ασφαλώς και έκανα πλάκα και ασφαλώς δεν εννοούσα το οτιδήποτε ..... Δεν κατάλαβα τελικά αυτό που έχει ο Αμερικάνος δεν είναι γνήσιο ??????

Επεξεργασία Ιανουαρίου 8, 2014 από φλοκ

[Lord Makro]

I agree with MORIBUS. I don't have his experience but forgery seems to be the case here. For the record, I also own issue 18 with the Punisher.

[GreekComicFan]

ts, ts, ts. I'm away for a while and you're talking about Kabanas without me?

[define999]

Wow, thank you all for your responses!   Germanicus, it seems almost like most of the Kabanas stuff didn’t correspond  with covers and insides? I can understand some mistakes or not caring while during the production process but it almost seems like they did this mis-matching on purpose from what I have seen of hellas books…..   Crazy….  

 

So full disclosure here as well…

 

I am currently working on a Kabanas article for FCC magazine. I have been working with Greek Comic fan and X for Xepeta…. They have been a great help and Im thinking with the forums good will of course, we can go ahead and turn this into a Kabanas Hellas information sharing thread? I want to write the definitive Kabanas hellas article in English for my American brethren. I love the damn things and wish to learn every last scrap about them……

 

X for Xepeta has already done some translating for me and I would like to begin by thanking everyone including the 2 guys I mentioned above for all the help! You Greeks are freakin cool man……  

 

 

So back to the topic at hand…. It seems like many of you have the 18 and the story inside its supposed to have… Mysterio….. Also it seems like some of you might have copies that are counterfeit.

 

CRC, yes when Tony posted these books he made a comment about how someone decided in Greece that they wanted the covers to match… he did not however mention anything about them not being sanctioned? Which is a mis-communication between him and me but, from what I am gathering CRC the paper still seems pretty similar in many respects……. so how do we know these were not printed on the same press with some of the same art and process’s?

 

Morbius, how long have these books been going for higher prices? I know that Americans didn’t really start actively seeking out hellas books until just a couple years ago… so I really don’t think these forgeries were intended for foreigners unless they were done very recently? And, my understanding is the Greek back issue market is it hasn’t necessarily created a lot of value for these books until recently as well? Or am I wrong?

 

What I am trying to get at here is it seems with what I am seeing and hearing these forgeries could have happened further back in the past at a time when financial gain might not have been a reason?

 

So how long has the database been around… a forged 18 screwed up the numbering there….

 

Ahhh!   it seems like there just isn’t much information on the man Hellas? Couple things maybe someone here on the forum can direct me too?

 

Whats his full Greek name?

 

Whats his publishing companies fullname?

 

Is there any information here on the site or on the web that goes into detail about how and why he did what he did? His process’s, his translating, his distribution, anything….

 

X for Xepeta has already translated some publishing timeline stuff for me but im wondering if there is some other archive of information that I can just google translate? I know Hellas died and his publication empire crumbled after that…..

 

I tried Greek Wikipedia and found nothing……

 

What about interviews with the man?

 

Any of this stuff out there?  

 

Again thanks guys…. and with all of your help hopefully I can do your “rough generation” article justice….  

 

Matthew

[GreekComicFan]

By Hellas, you mean Hlias (or to correct myself, Elias more accurately) of course. His Name is Elias Kabanas and the company's name Kabanas Hellas, as you see in the covers. As for info about Kabanas, you already have my reply for that in previous pm's but I'm interested to see if someone knows more too and haven't shared the info with us.

[define999]

Yea, I am betting there is more info out there, there has to be.... Again thanks greekcomicfan!

 

Could you do me a favor? I need to know the exact greek translation using greek characters... "elias kabanas publisher"

 

This should allow me to search the greek web... I don't trust google translate... the results I got didn't make sense to me.... thanks again!  

[Tightwad]

Could you do me a favor? I need to know the exact greek translation using greek characters... "elias kabanas publisher"

Εκδότης Ηλίας Καμπανάς. Επεξεργασία Ιανουαρίου 9, 2014 από Tightwad

[tik]

May I add that "KABANAS HELLAS" (that is printed in all the covers) actually means "KABANAS GREECE".

 

In Greek we refer to our country as "ΕΛΛΑΣ"-"HELLAS".

 

The publisher's name, as it is mentioned above, is Ηλίας Καμπανάς or Elias Kampanas, or Elias Kabanas  or even Helias Kampanas

 

[GreekComicFan]

Καμπανάς himself wrote his name as Kabanas. I'll go with that. We do not need to compicate things further. 

Επεξεργασία Ιανουαρίου 9, 2014 από GreekComicFan

[define999]

Awesome! Thanks tightwad, tik, @ GCF! This gives me a place to start...... 

[define999]

Ahhhh man this is insane....  I couldn't find anything in depth about the man at all! Even using the proper Greek spelling and language there is literally nothing out there on the web as far as google is concerned that I am able to find! Here in America even older libraries have their microfiche and archives connected to the internet. Its crazy how much info you can find on one solitary nobody here in America much less well known a publisher. 

 

So I tried something else.. I thought for sure a college professor or someone like that could help me? So I looked up colleges in Greece and couldn't really find any relevant contact info for any professor at all? Its all just contact systems in place for interested students requesting info about the college. They are not going to waste time responding to me.....

 

So I thought a journalist might be able to help? So I lloked up allthe english language journalistic outfits in Greece and many of them state very boldy on the bottom that they cannot process inquiries for research...dont even try they say!   Apparently I am not the only American attempting to gather information about Greece? I have spent enough time already today... I will have to tackle it again another day.... My next idea is bookstores? Maybe some bookstore owners could direct me to something? 

 

Im dead serious about this.... I find it hard to believe no one has written anything about this publisher in Greece before... the information has to be out there... my guess is its just not on the internet? If any of you guys have any other avenues you think I could try please let me know... im willing to do the leg work, im just not sure where to start? 

[define999]

Oh and since you guys are so darn cool.... how about a preview of the cover for issue 3 of FCC? 

 

[crc]

 You will probably find almost nothing on the Internet about the publisher.

And my 2cents say that you will also get zero from the kind of contacts you mentioned.

 

I can make a proposition and i believe some of the other members here can back it up.

 

I believe that you have a questionnaire or a layout about the things you want to find out about Kabanas.

 

Share it here and i hope that we can fill out the answers, or most of them.

 

Also among us as i know are people who are by proffesion publishers and journalists. Maybe they can also shed a light in the case.  

[Tightwad]

 

So I thought a journalist might be able to help? So I lloked up allthe english language journalistic outfits in Greece and many of them state very boldy on the bottom that they cannot process inquiries for research...dont even try they say! 

Eh, that's not that strange.

 

I won't pretend to understand how international journalism works, but one logical explanation could be that they do not have permanent correspondants stationed here (only special, which would mean that they fly over to cover specific events) due to the size of the country (which has a smaller population than Ohio). They instead just process domestic press releases.

 

Or I could be completely wrong, dunno. But I think that it's a pretty solid bet that they won't exactly just research that one old publisher.

Επεξεργασία Ιανουαρίου 9, 2014 από Tightwad

[define999]

Yea, im realizing that pretty much nothing but top layer stuff exists on the interwebz about Kabanas.....

 

I was hoping that someone in that area of contacts could at least direct me toward a lead or something else.... I wish to do a true journalistic type piece. Something had to have been written about the publisher at some point right? It might not exist on the web but it might exist somewhere?

 

X for Xpeta has given me a publishing list of the first wave and lots of that type of info already..... the second wave and the dry period in the 80's he is researching for me.

 

Also GCF has given me alot of info as well.... the anthology aspect of the books, the part color, part B@W to save money... the fact that translators were not credited? the "tough generation" marketing aspect...... and info like that.... 

 

In fact im thinking of including the "Tough Generation" in the title of the piece somewhere..... 

 

Stuff im curious about.... who was Elias Kabanas? Who was the man? Why did he decide to bring over American superheros to Greece? What was the licensing process? official, un-official? Print run numbers? Were american superhero comics successful in Greece? Why if so, why if not? Were there cultural problems that needed working out? How did he die? How were Kabanas titles distributed in Greece? newsstands? bookstores? Deeper stuff like that im interested in..... Were the translations good or bad? Did the books drive young Greek youth to seek out actual American comic books? Jeeze theres lots to know..... 

 

Also... the thrown together nature of the comics is something we Americans love.... was this a way to do the as cheaply as possible? And some other market related questions.....

 

Thanks guys!

 

Matthew

 

 

 

 

 

More stuff I am into  finding out about is....  What made Hellas decide he was going to bring over the

[define999]

Eh, that's not that strange.

 

I won't pretend to understand how international journalism works, but one logical explanation could be that they do not have permanent correspondants stationed here (only special, which would mean that they fly over to cover specific events) due to the size of the country (which has a smaller population than Ohio). They instead just process domestic press releases.

 

Or I could be completely wrong, dunno. But I think that it's a pretty solid bet that they won't exactly just research that one old publisher.

 

 

Well, im not necessarily asking them to research for me.... just point me in a direction that might help me..... im willing to do the leg work... but unfortunately it doesn't appear like there is anything on the virtual web? So it looks like I am going to be stuck to sources for info.... thats what im looking for... info and sources...    I might also ask the local Greek communities here in America about some of this as well....... got to be some expats in there that might know something deeper right? 

[Tightwad]

 I might also ask the local Greek communities here in America about some of this as well....... got to be some expats in there that might know something deeper right? 

Ι think that it's important to not exaggerate the percentage of the population that grew up reading comic books, especially in an era where there wasn't exactly a short bio of the publisher in the back of the book...

 

I'm sure that there must have been some limited record-keeping. I do vividly recall a member cross-checking some details on an obscure publishing house a couple of weeks ago, so I am sure that there is some hope.