What the heck is up with the numbering on the Kabanas Hellas books?

[GreekComicFan]

Ι think that it's important to not exaggerate the percentage of the population that grew up reading comic books, especially in an era where there wasn't exactly a short bio of the publisher in the back of the book...

 

I'm sure that there must have been some limited record-keeping. I do vividly recall a member cross-checking some details on an obscure publishing house a couple of weeks ago, so I am sure that there is some hope.

You' re probably remember Moribus, already posting in this thread. And even he can not answer most of the questions.

 

Matthew, the comics that Kabanas published, were circulated exclusively in newsstands, like with most of the publishers of his area. Also, the first actual attempt to catalog greeks comics, were done from this very site, which started in 2006! In America people started searching and cross-reference seriously from the '60's, publishing fanzines and creating comic clubs, when most of the pioneers of the comic scene were alive and could be interviewed. Those same people later went on to place comics in libraries and so on. Here, they were some fanzines and comic clubs in the past, but the main focus was to provide information for the happenings in the foreign market. So, no one gathered these information.  Also, comics were stigmatized in Greece even before Wertham caused all the paranoia about them in the states, an stigma that endured. So, of course it's not easy to find so specific information. No one bothered before.

 

There was a chance for a person that worked there to come and talk at some point about his career (he's an artist/creator too), but that never happened, apparently.

[define999]

Ι think that it's important to not exaggerate the percentage of the population that grew up reading comic books, especially in an era where there wasn't exactly a short bio of the publisher in the back of the book...

 

I'm sure that there must have been some limited record-keeping. I do vividly recall a member cross-checking some details on an obscure publishing house a couple of weeks ago, so I am sure that there is some hope.

 

Hope is all I can ask for at the moment! Do you know how proud I would be if I as a American could dig up some info on these amaing books? The article is one of my goals for 2014... thank you for joining me on this journey! 

[define999]

You' re probably remember Moribus, already posting in this thread. And even he can not answer most of the questions.

 

Matthew, the comics that Kabanas published, were circulated exclusively in newsstands, like with most of the publishers of his area. Also, the first actual attempt to catalog greeks comics, were done from this very site, which started in 2006! In America people started searching and cross-reference seriously from the '60's, publishing fanzines and creating comic clubs, when most of the pioneers of the comic scene were alive and could be interviewed. Those same people later went on to place comics in libraries and so on. Here, they were some fanzines and comic clubs in the past, but the main focus was to provide information for the happenings in the foreign market. So, no one gathered these information.  Also, comics were stigmatized in Greece even before Wertham caused all the paranoia about them in the states, an stigma that endured. So, of course it's not easy to find so specific information. No one bothered before.

 

There was a chance for a person that worked there to come and talk at some point about his career (he's an artist/creator too), but that never happened, apparently.

Newstands... check got it!

 

Yea you right... here in America there has been scholarly activity directed towards comics for some time. I like to do things no one else has done before... that why IM into foreign comics..... me and my compatriots are very ver niche here in America, but I like to think we create our own paths through this hobby. 

 

thats to bad as far as research starting so late.... its ok... we are going to try... and then I am goign to attempt a journalistic piece that does these books justice.  As much info as we can find will be put creatively into something that can hopefully create a definitive history of these books...... so another thought for instance, The Kabanas comics didn't have much info in them publishing-wise so we must start somewhere else correct?

 

Are these other books published or written by Elias?

 

http://www.protoporia.gr/author_info.php?authors_id=916065

 

 

[define999]

Seems like he wrote a bunch of educational stuff.... makes sense that it wasn't a far reach to comics. I guess he was a writer / editor and was published by other publishing houses as well as having his own publishing company.... interesting....  

[GreekComicFan]

I don't know if he was indeed a writer to all of the books available in that site or it's just a poor mislabel from their part, but he indeed published a lot of books aiming at the children and educational market and he is credited as educator in some of these books.

[MORIBUS]

Okay, Matthew, I'll try to answer some of your questions about the Kabanas publishing company.

1) This publisher got very rich in the early '70s, just because of two comic strips of italian origin, that are completely unknown to US fans: Tiramola and Serafino.

2) He started the Marvel run with the Master of Kung Fu title because the Kung Fu TV show -with Carradine- had a major success those days in Greece. 

3)He defined the term cheap in everything that has to do with publishing! His translations ranged from mediocre to incompehencible. His parer were pulp of the pulp. In the creative department he was lucky to have a talented artist -Isaak- that worked almost alone, and when this guy left for unknown reasons, the looks of his comics were severely damaged! He didn't bother to buy veloxes so he had the staff -people totaly unskilled- to colorize the pages!  

4)But he was lucky -or instinct driven- enough to publish some of the greatest comic stories of all time, so I give him credit for it.

 

(I'll be back with more informations tomorrow.)

Επεξεργασία Ιανουαρίου 10, 2014 από MORIBUS

[define999]

I don't know if he was indeed a writer to all of the books available in that site or it's just a poor mislabel from their part, but he indeed published a lot of books aiming at the children and educational market and he is credited as educator in some of these books.

 

 

Ok cool! My buddy Alexis owns a bookshop on the island of Cyprus... its in larnaca... I have asked him to see if in any of the Kabanas books there is more info about the publisher? Lets see if we can find some info?

[define999]

Okay, Matthew, I'll try to answer some of your questions about the Kabanas publishing company.

1) This publisher got very rich in the early '70s, just because of two comic strips of italian origin, that are completely unknown to US fans: Tiramola and Serafino.

2) He started the Marvel run with the Master of Kung Fu title because the Kung Fu TV show -with Carradine- had a major success those days in Greece. 

3)He defined the term cheap in everything that has to do with publishing! His translations ranged from mediocre to incompehencible. His parer were pulp of the pulp. In the creative department he was lucky to have a talented artist -Isaak- that worked almost alone, and when this guy left for unknown reasons, the looks of his comics were severely damaged! He didn't bother to buy veloxes so he had the staff -people totaly unskilled- to colorize the pages!  

4)But he was lucky -or instinct driven- enough to publish some of the greatest comic stories of all time, so I give him credit for it.

 

(I'll be back with more informations tomorrow.)

 

Yea, Xfor Xepeta and GCF had told me about those 2 Italian titles. And your right Americans have absolutely no idea really about them. My understanding was they were quite popular in Greece! So this seeded money for Kabanas to pursue the “rough generation” uh… interesting….

 

Pulp of pulp! Crazy... its a miracle any of these comics survived..... Yea, XFXpeta gave me a early publishing list... Kinda cool the Kung Fu show seemed to have kick started things....

 

I find the story about Isaak to be pretty neat... is this guy alive? He would probably be someone who could open the vault of knowledge about the early process... has anyone in Greece tried to contact this guy? Does he show up at conventions? I would assume he has some interesting stories to tell.

 

Another guy id like to get ahold of would be Vasilis Hilas. GCF tells me he knows a lot as well.

 

 

My 2 buds GCF and XFxepta and I also discussed tomes… now GCF said that Kabanas stock got redistributed in tomes at times… was this done with stock that was returned maybe? Unsold stock can easily be turned into value packs(anthologies)….. So this “toming” was done by the publisher right. Interestingly enough I have never actually seen what this looks like? The French Canadian publisher Editions Heritage did this with thier stock, but when done they renamed it and called it a comicorama while adding new covers. Do kabanas tomes have new printed covers for the anthologies?

 

Also we discussed print runs…. And that for the kabanas most popular “rough generation” title Spiderman print runs per issue could have averaged 20 thousand. This is quite low man….  Why so low? Was the stigma attached to comics so ingrained in Greece, like some of you have implied, that there just were not many Greek youths reading these types of comics or comics in general? Here in America there was stigma of course but by the late 60’s comics collecting and reading had ingrained itself in the youth culture. We could still be considered outcasts but there were enough of us so that a support system was in place culturally. This support system allowed the hobby to thrive. It saddens me that maybe this wasn’t the case in Greece?

 

Lots to think about for sure..... 

 

Thanks a bunch guys!

 

 

[Lord Makro]

Heheheh... MORIBUS is Vasilis Hilas my friend!

[GreekComicFan]

Heheheh... MORIBUS is Vasilis Hilas my friend!

Damn, I wanted to point the finger to him.

[define999]

Heheheh... MORIBUS is Vasilis Hilas my friend!

 

 

Amazing! I have heard he did translation for mamouth? Thank you Makro.....

 

@ Morbius   

 

 

Translators have a unique angle on the world of foreign comics. You guys were right smack in the heart of history as far as these books are concerned!

 

Right now we are working on issue 4 of FCC magazine.  The main feature story is about a young Mexican boy who fell in love with American superheros, learned English, and then started on the ground floor at Novaro! Novaro was one of the big Mexican publishers at the time in the 70’s and they had a license to publish DC comics in Mexico city. He started out at the lowest entry level position…. blacking out the American text and counting characters for the translators. He then continued up the ladder until he was translating whole books and working with art. His story is fascinating….. as I am sure yours is as well Vasilis Hilas!

 

I would be honored to discuss your story in this thread, another thread, via PM, via email or whatever you might want? I would love to publish something about you in FCC magazine. If your interested of course…… It could be something you write? Or a Q &A or whatever…… anyways thanks for hearing me out and helping me out! The mammoth books are quite well done from a visual perspective. Of course I could claim to know anything about the translation, but something tells me they might have been a little better then the Kabanas books!    

 

I think to day I will shoot a short video so you guys can meet me in a more personal way?

[GreekComicFan]

Tomes were indeed the unsold stock with new covers. Initially Kabanas released them by stripping the covers of the actual issues and by collecting random issues from random Marvel series (though f.e. issues from Phantom (yep, that Phantom) would also find their way in these tomes, but the weekly Spider-Man issues were released mostly in order and with the cover intact. The size of all the individual issues is further trimmed so the size of the tome to be even.

[MORIBUS]

 

Amazing! I have heard he did translation for mamouth? Thank you Makro.....

 

@ Morbius   

 

 

Translators have a unique angle on the world of foreign comics. You guys were right smack in the heart of history as far as these books are concerned!

 

Right now we are working on issue 4 of FCC magazine.  The main feature story is about a young Mexican boy who fell in love with American superheros, learned English, and then started on the ground floor at Novaro! Novaro was one of the big Mexican publishers at the time in the 70’s and they had a license to publish DC comics in Mexico city. He started out at the lowest entry level position…. blacking out the American text and counting characters for the translators. He then continued up the ladder until he was translating whole books and working with art. His story is fascinating….. as I am sure yours is as well Vasilis Hilas!

 

I would be honored to discuss your story in this thread, another thread, via PM, via email or whatever you might want? I would love to publish something about you in FCC magazine. If your interested of course…… It could be something you write? Or a Q &A or whatever…… anyways thanks for hearing me out and helping me out! The mammoth books are quite well done from a visual perspective. Of course I could claim to know anything about the translation, but something tells me they might have been a little better then the Kabanas books!  

 

I think to day I will shoot a short video so you guys can meet me in a more personal way?

I 'll gladly answer anything you want in every possible way, but let's start this tomorrow because I realy have to leave home right now...Damn!!

(And, Mat, the nickname is Moribus, from the misspelled name on the cover of Amazing Spider-Man # 102, that hosts the origin of that Greek-born anti-hero!)  

[define999]

Tomes were indeed the unsold stock with new covers. Initially Kabanas released them by stripping the covers of the actual issues and by collecting random issues from random Marvel series (though f.e. issues from Phantom (yep, that Phantom) would also find their way in these tomes, but the weekly Spider-Man issues were released mostly in order and with the cover intact. The size of all the individual issues is further trimmed so the size of the tome to be even.

 

Interesting...... I would love to see a picture of a tome? What did the new covers look like? Are their scans here? 

[GreekComicFan]

Yup.

 

2 series, Klasika Comics, and Super Marvel Comics, all in one page.

[define999]

I 'll gladly answer anything you want in every possible way, but let's start this tomorrow because I realy have to leave home right now...Damn!!

(And, Mat, the nickname is Moribus, from the misspelled name on the cover of Amazing Spider-Man # 102, that hosts the origin of that Greek-born anti-hero!)  

Ahh I get the Moribus reference now.... 

 

Awesome my man!!!! 

 

So would you like to create a new thread about this? Do you want to do it though private messaging? However you want... just let me know.... and no hurry, anything we write about cant be published for another couple of months anyway..... I put FCC together far out into the future! Issue 3 is done already, and all the content for issue 4 is already gathered. I am very excited to hear your story Vasilis! 

 

 

[define999]

Yup.

 

2 series, Klasika Comics, and Super Marvel Comics, all in one page.

 

Freakin amazing! Thanks GCF! 

[define999]

Wondering who in the hell do I think I am being all crazy about Greek books? Check out this vid and its nice to meet you guys!

 

https://vimeo.com/83880454

[GreekComicFan]

Awesome!

[define999]

Awesome!

Thanks man! I am one crazy American! 

[Lord Makro]

Nice to meet you     keep it up!

[define999]

:popcorn:Will do!

[define999]

Ok guys.... id like to backtrack a bit..... 

 

Could someone explain what was said about a knowing whoever made the spidey/punisher forgery? Did whoever did this do it for other issues? And, why would they have done it? For financial purposes? Also, in all of your opinion when were these forgeries created? Recently or further back in the past? 

 

Also, another question..... at what point were American comics in English available to Greek comic lovers? And, if given the choice do Greeks prefer their indigenous translations or the American books? I write about something I call the foreign indigenous bias in my articles about foreign collecting. And its basically the idea that in many countries the local population can fail to see the inherent value weather intrinsic or monetary of the local books. This in turn creates market conditions where the local comics flounder and are treated poorly causing the local books to fall into the wastebin of history if that makes any sense. 

 

Many countries suffer from this condition.... Australia, Portugal, Mexico, Philippines.... some worse then others of course... and also the indigenous bias can be generational in nature..... for instance those of you who grew up with hellas books see thier value, but a younger Greek might not and consider them worthless or not something with any inherent value at all. Just curious as I have never asked this question in a general manner.

 

 

[MORIBUS]

Matt, if you want my opinion, I think the person who forged these issues wanted so hard to fix the Kabanas error that didn't mind to destroy the numbering. For him only the american stuff had some value and by clipping the right cover to the right story he felt as if he owned the original issue!! And in a way, he became, for one time, the editor and the publisher himself!

Επεξεργασία Ιανουαρίου 13, 2014 από MORIBUS

[define999]

So it wasn't done for someone else's benefit.... only for themselves which makes the whole thing quite different. Do you know when this might have happened? And did it happen to other issues... could this person be the reason for some of the other discrepancies we see in the Hellas books? Did they work for Hellas at one time? Or were they just a very serious collector? 

 

Also, we are sure this isn't a sanctioned thing.... or not something that happened during the time the Hellas books came out? Possibly someone who had access to the print shop that was doing the printing for Kabanas? 

 

Again thank you so much for the info.....

 

Matthew

[MORIBUS]

If I am right, this guy had nothing to do with the Kabanas publishing. He was only a fan that he could not afford the messed-up covers. He may did this immediately, after the books got out, in the '70s, ten years later, or last year, doesn't matter. What matters is his obsession to set things right that derived from his great love for the material. A great fan surely, albeit a little coocoo. 

Επεξεργασία Ιανουαρίου 13, 2014 από MORIBUS

[define999]

Ahhhh I see.... ok..... cool!      A superfan that wanted things to be made right!

 

Now, I have a buddy of mine researching Kabanas the man..... but im also interested in his company. Did you know that some greek book scans ended up in the Gerber guide of Marvel comics? 

 

http://www.amazon.com/Photo-Journal-Guide-Marvel-Comics-Volume/dp/0962332852

 

Now after thinking about it... I think I have answered one of my own questions.... Marvel would not have let Gerber included the Greek scans if they were not officially licensed. So I think we can now put that question as to weather the licensing was in place or not to rest..... They were officially licensed and like said earlier art was used from another foreign country. 

 

Now.... is it possible that a academic source exists to research this publishing house? A journalistic college, library or something? A contact that can direct us to possible info on the publisher that even you guys have never found out? 

 

I wonder if Elias had a family with kids or any heirs? 

[MORIBUS]

Ahhhh I see.... ok..... cool!      A superfan that wanted things to be made right!

 

Now, I have a buddy of mine researching Kabanas the man..... but im also interested in his company. Did you know that some greek book scans ended up in the Gerber guide of Marvel comics? 

 

http://www.amazon.com/Photo-Journal-Guide-Marvel-Comics-Volume/dp/0962332852

 

Now after thinking about it... I think I have answered one of my own questions.... Marvel would not have let Gerber included the Greek scans if they were not officially licensed. So I think we can now put that question as to weather the licensing was in place or not to rest..... They were officially licensed and like said earlier art was used from another foreign country. 

 

Now.... is it possible that a academic source exists to research this publishing house? A journalistic college, library or something? A contact that can direct us to possible info on the publisher that even you guys have never found out? 

 

I wonder if Elias had a family with kids or any heirs? 

I bought the Photo-journal guide just when it came out, so I know, of course, of these covers (Εκδικητές, Μαν-Γουλφ, Πόλεμος των άστρων and Χουλκ were included). I remember that It was a great surprise for me when I saw them, back then. As for the Kabanas family, I know for sure, that his daughter, Thalia survived him, and that she was the sole publisher when their collaboration with Marvel came to an end. 

Επεξεργασία Ιανουαρίου 13, 2014 από MORIBUS

[define999]

uuummmmmm maybe i will try a different tact then.... maybe the daughter needs to be researched?    Very interesting that she continued the family business. 

 

Yea the Gerber journal guides are amazing books.... gotta be my favorite coffee table books ever!   

 

I am a fool..... I know the database here can be searched by title and year? Im trying to figure out a way to get it to show me just books by publisher... is there a way to do that, I cannot figure it out? I can find everything tagged with kabanas but thats showing me threads and all sorts of other stuff... I punched in Kabanas into the PM bar thinking it was a search field!!!! 

 

 

If I can have access to everything in the database that Kabanas published then that will help me with scans and publication info... I wish to begin writing the opening parts of the article soon...

[GreekComicFan]

Go Here, click search and there's a field to search by publisher.

 

Thalia continued for a few years after her father's death, publishing children's books and printing stuff for other publishers (they had their own print) but the trails that I could find in a search I did a few years ago don't go beyond the end of '90s.